A THEOLOGICALLY PROVOCATIVE RESPONSE TO JOHN SHORE (Christianity’s newest champion of the ‘Gay is Okay with God’ movement)

http://johnshore.com/2011/06/20/am-i-seeking-the-truth-because-i-want-to-justify-my-sin/

I just finished reading well-known Christian blogger John Shore’s latest appeal to Christians to not be merely ‘gay-friendly’, but gay-condoning. (See the above link).

I am incensed by and take serious issue with John Shore’s response to a young girl who in her email/letter to him, details her struggles with homosexuality (within herself and within the scope of her Christian ideals).  Well John, I hope to do some damage control lest other Christians out there begin to think that they’re now somehow wrong for wanting to call sin, sin – even if that particular sin is the ‘ever-growing-in-acceptance’ lifestyle of homosexuality.

The first thing that came to my mind upon finding this post of Mr. Shore’s was:  “What’s with these pseudo-evangelical-Christian-mouthpieces-turned-sycophants who are so ‘taken’ by deeply-personal emotional stories that they become persuaded that the Scriptures are not to be taken at face value if it’s inconvenient to do so?

Do these guys really think it wise to take an Exacto-knife to certain biblical principles/moral standards that don’t line up with society’s new-normal values?  We certainly don’t do this with regard to other sins, but when it comes to the gay issue – well that’s different.

(Interesting to note that I read this post on the heels of Toronto’s LGBT community press-blitzes for the upcoming Gay Pride parade.  I had no idea that this event is a 10 day festival!  Public/taxpayer money goes into this celebration and do you think for ONE MINUTE that a Hetero-Pride parade would get equal support, attendance and approving nods from the City of Toronto?).

John, you can preach ‘gay is normal’ 20 ways from Sunday but the fact is – It’s Not the Default Design!  Seriously think about it – if it were the default design we wouldn’t be here.  Propagation of the species wouldn’t be occurring.  I am not saying not to love LGBT’s with as much love, consideration and Christ-likeness as the next (non-gay) person, but “dammit Jim”, gay is not ‘okay’ just because lots and lots of people are marching down this route and/or experimenting with it (free from societal repercussion and/or social stigma).  (I think there’s a reason for that by the way:  media and socially driven support, nay – elevation!).

We have become an existentialist libertine society with sayings like “follow your heart” and “go with your gut”.  It’s sayings like this that give rise to extramarital affairs that destroy families and allow the development of dating services like Ashley Madison, whose motto is “Life is Short – Have an Affair”.

Gay behaviour is a choice.  Some gays believe that they truly are ‘homosexual’ in their physiology or minds – a theory that has never been scientifically proven.  However, the decision to partner with someone – to have sex with another human being – is a conscious choice made by heterosexual and homosexual alike.

Now we’re instructed by Christ that if we are to serve God, we must make some oft difficult choices.  We are, in fact, told to pick up our cross.  And how true it is that crosses really hurt!  Sometimes one’s cross will be to quit drugs, while for another it’s to stop stealing from their workplace or to stop gossiping.  Sometimes it will be the severing of a heterosexual-based relationship that is spiritually (or emotionally) destructive and/or not in line with God’s will (premarital sex too folks…the Word is clear on it!).  And where practicing gays are concerned and with God’s reliable help, it will be a severing of non-default-design behaviours/relationships – whether one likes it or not – that are not in line with God’s concepts of what’s right.

[Reference:  1 Timothy 1:8-10, Romans 1:22-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 2 Peter 3:14-18, Romans 12:1-2]

How does John Shore (who admits to being ‘no theologian’ in his blog) or ANY semi-evangelistic bible oriented Christian get so thrown off their guard by a few sincere letters from individuals who emotionally state things so convincingly as to sway opinion in order to have their dispositions receive full acceptance and encouragement?

The unknown girl who wrote in to Mr. Shore stated something interesting and rather revealing:

“And there’s this website she (‘she’ being the girl’s mother) always visits, I can’t remember the site or the speaker’s name. But it teaches that there is hope for gays and lesbians to be straight. And it hurts me. And confuses me at some point. If God did not want me to be this way, I should have just been straight in the first place. Why would God create gays and lesbians? Or did He really create us to be this way? And If He did made us this way, is it just to prove that there is hope for change for people like us??”

Rather than John Shore’s lame, biblically-non-conformist response that amounts to, “there, there honey … it’s okay to go against Scripture (which is off the mark anyway, from what I can tell) as long as you feel love for Jesus and yourself”, I would say this to the young lady concerned:


“My dear young lady:  I know you’re experiencing a most horrendous struggle within yourself.  But have you ever thought to look at your sexual predisposition – which seems so right in your own mind – in a different light?  Allow me to help you try, if you’ll let me.

When you’re angry and everything inside you says to smash in the head of that jerk who’s tormenting you, you feel completely justified.  It’s natural to want to act out on such feelings.  BUT, you don’t.  Why?  “Thou shalt not kill comes to mind”, surely, but so do the consequences of one’s following through with their deepest instincts.  Following any sin through to its end will have consequences, whether we like to believe that or not.  God does warn us about sin’s deceitfulness and end results.  History is full of examples of sin’s long-term outcomes.  As ‘wrath/rage’ is listed as a sin along with homosexual behaviour in the Good Book, we have to assume it has a consequence or is something that is an unfavourable disposition in God’s eyes.  It may seem totally right for you to feel ‘gay’ but, if you respect the integrity of the Word of God to any extent, you have to admit the possibility that it may in fact not be right.  Men and women were NOT initially programmed to be killers, or haters or liars or covetous.  We are – in the here and now – bearing in our bodies and minds the results of the fall of man and woman in the garden.  So with respect to our sexuality; why shouldn’t that have been affected too?

I would have to say that it might be a good idea to challenge your disposition by thinking outside the box in three areas:  a) your personal feelings about what’s right and wrong b) modern society’s acceptable ‘new’ norms and c) your concepts of what God’s will for you is.

Have you tried listening to the minister your mom has made reference too?  If he’s a judgmental jerk who keeps threatening hell-fire if you don’t ‘convert’, then flee.  But if there are former homosexuals who have learned how to reset their minds (Romans 12:2) via God’s healing hands and via other tested/powerful techniques, wouldn’t you give it a best shot?

It’s because you claim to love Jesus that makes me hope that you can also learn to bear and love the cross – His and the one you’re to carry.  Sadly, your cross may in fact mean for you abstinence from sexual expression for a time.  (It’s not the end of the world, even though that may be little comfort to you now.  But you have to ponder why there’s no sex in heaven!)  Carrying your cross may mean your rethinking the value of the Word and its definitions/outlines of holy living and moral excellence.  If your problem were drug addiction or drug dependency, would you not regard/attend a support group to recondition yourself toward better, drug-free living as you fully realize that such a lifestyle is best?  You may be surprised at what you are able to learn about yourself and what your mind – with God’s help and the help of others – is capable of!  I can only imagine how terrified you must feel, but He is with you and wants the best for you.  You already know that He gave everything for you!  Will you have the courage to accept the truth that, along with other holy/moral directives, that heterosexuality is what God intended and sanctioned from the beginning?  You may not ‘feel it’ right away, or possibility at all.  You can’t guarantee how God will deal with your deepest self.  But you can trust that God’s ways are higher than your own and what he wants for you is always the better option. 

“We are golden
Caught in the Devil’s bargain
And we’ve got to get ourselves back to the garden”  (Joni Mitchell).

Be blessed and seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness – all else will be added to your life if you do this.  It’s Christ’s promise!”


John Shore – don’t speak for Christianity as if you have it sussed out for everyone.  You are a just another weak link in an ever lengthening chain of heretical thinkers who want to water-down/obfuscate the Bible’s clear take on what’s right and what’s wrong in order to placate the masses who selfishly (as per our nature) want a god who will cater heartily to our desires (good and profane) and who will also protect us from feeling ‘convicted’ about our sin, lest we have to change!  Not cool, dude.  Not cool.

In Him who is True,

The Son He Loves
a.k.a., Seymour Clearly

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About thesonheloves

"...because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son." Hebrews 12:6
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24 Responses to A THEOLOGICALLY PROVOCATIVE RESPONSE TO JOHN SHORE (Christianity’s newest champion of the ‘Gay is Okay with God’ movement)

  1. paulthinkingoutloud says:

    They say each period is a response to the period that preceded it. I think that after years of spreading truth without grace, we’ve now swung to the other extreme and are over-reacting by spreading grace without truth.

  2. charles says:

    so…. is Homosexuality the sin, or promiscuity?….. if all sin is essentially equal, (except for cursing God) does it really matter which one(s) we are (continually) guilty of?….ALL have fallen short….

  3. Nar-Nar says:

    Guess what? Homosexuality is not a sin. And I praise John Shore for having the guts to stand firm and say so. Didn’t Jesus say, “Let he without sin cast the first stone”? Are you without sin? Are you infallible? Do you commune directly with God? Has God told you personally that he approves of the condemnation of millions who are BORN homosexuals? It’s time to grow up and join the 21st century. It’s time to follow John’s and many other’s examples of actually living the way Jesus wanted us to live – with only love, forgiveness, and kindness in our hearts.

  4. Nar-Nar says:

    Oh, and one more thing.

    In a response to this: “Do these guys really think it wise to take an Exacto-knife to certain biblical principles/passages that don’t line up with society’s new-normal values?”

    Yes. It is wise. Because 1.) the Bible was written by Man, not God, and 2.) the Bible also preaches that adulterous women should be killed, that stoning is an a-ok punishment, and many other things that don’t exactly work in a “civilized” society.

  5. Dear John Shore (if you’re reading this):

    Well, then can I roam beside you? I have come to lose the smog.
    And I feel myself a cog in something turning.
    And maybe it’s the time of year, yes, said maybe it’s the time of man.
    And I don’t know who I am but life is for learning.
    We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon,
    And we got to get ourselves back to the garden.

    Namasté, God bless you, Love & Light, Peace be upon you and THANK YOU for your voice, your wisdom and your patience with people like this blog author (it’s inspiring my tolerance right.this.very.moment)

  6. Marie says:

    What would Jesus do? Certainly not condemn gays and lesbians for who they are. Shame on you. You give Christians a bad name.

  7. BB says:

    Doesn’t matter if homosexuality is sin or not! Grace is grace. Either you believe he died for all..or he died for none.! You can’t cherry pick sin because sin is the human condition. Sin separated us from God.. Jesus reconciled us back to him. Not to say that you will want to live like hell as Christ lives in you but again it’s your choice. God is love…Jesus on the cross. Sin has been defeated for all who believe irregardless if your Greek or Jew, Black or White, Male or Female, Gay or Straight blah, blah blah. And yes I’m gay, christian, mother, daughter, partner blah blah blah.
    And what the heck does serving God mean? Sillyness.. he needs nothing from us but only wants to shower us with love and blessings. And it doesn’t matter how much we love him..it’s that he loves us. So glad I broke the shackles of judgemental, self righteous legalistic know it alls and am perfectly at peace with my love affair with God!

    • Jackie says:

      What the heck does serving the Lord mean?
      “Only fear the Lord and serve him faithfully with all your heart. For consider what great things he has done for you.” -1 Samuel 12:24

      Sin doesn’t matter?
      Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. – 1 Corinthians 6:9

      Doesn’t matter if homosexuality is sin or not?
      For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. – Romans 1.26-28

      He ONLY WANTS TO SHOWER US WITH LOVE AND BLESSINGS?
      Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. – Matthew 5.10-12
      (Yes if you mean this as blessings)

      IT DOESN’T MATTER HOW MUCH WE LOVE HIM?
      I’ll go as far to say that you don’t know what it means to be Christian, saying this. Because God commanded, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.” in Deuteronomy 6.5 which Jesus did emphasise in the Gospels.

      You gotta check and re-check if you indeed are perfectly at peace with God. The bible says “judge with righteous judgement”, thus judgement is good if it is righteous. The bible has states so much in contradiction to what you say here I just can’t help but to tell you. Think about the weight of the commandment to love God with all your might! He is Lord, we are servants of the Lord. If there is no notion of service to God in your Christianity, it isn’t Christianity. If sin isn’t important to you, then truly Christ’s death and resurrection wouldn’t mean much to you. CHRIST HAD TO DIE TO SAVE YOU FROM WHAT? SIN, my friend. He DIED for SIN.

    • Frank Blanko says:

      people like u shuld be shot ur poison to the youth, ppl like u rape babies n say they was born gay. Every gay person has been violated severly in some way n wasnt strong enough to ova come it. they were eithier raped or physically abused or verbally or was weak minded n heavely influenced

  8. Kara K says:

    But we do take an Exacto-knife to scripture when society’s morals evolve. Some Christians were at the forefront of civil rights for blacks in the 60’s and some were dragged kicking and screaming into it. Some Christians were at the forefront of rights to women in the 20’s and some were dragged kicking and screaming into it. Some Christians were at the forefront of ending slavery before the Civil War and some were dragged kicking and screaming into it. All Christians who oppose civil rights for any group can find scripture to back up their views. John Shore is walking with Jesus at the forefront of civility and grace. You, my friend will eventually be dragged kicking and screaming into it.

  9. Cassandra says:

    I’m having issues with your title. “Theologically Provocative.” I see no real theology in your argument. Just one person’s opinion (yours) against another’s (his). To paraphrase someone else who’s name escapes me…. If we keep insisting that God is love (not God loves, or God wants us to love, but God IS love) then who are we to deny the manifestation of that love?

  10. Don Rappe says:

    Like Cassandra, I can find no theology in your response to John’s blog. I do find this:”Some gays believe that they truly are ‘homosexual’ in their physiology or minds – a theory that has never been scientifically proven.” Unless you have some secret information that has not been available to psychologists and psychiatrists for the last 50 years, it is fair to say that you speak from ignorance or perhaps are strongly opinionated. If you have recovered from a powerful sexual addiction, you should thank God for his help, but, you should not confuse the sexual gifts given by God to his children with an addiction. To do so in the face of current scientific knowledge is tantamount to lying, and we know who is the father of lies. And I hope you will not cherry pick around the scripture in which He who is True tells us what is the preferable course for those who would offend against his little ones, who believe in him.
    Yours in Him Who is True.

  11. John Shore says:

    I do have myself a brilliant little band … . Thanks, guys.

  12. Pingback: Wednesday Link List « Thinking Out Loud

  13. Chris says:

    A couple of things:

    1. John Shore: One sentence of non-response…really?

    2. Don Rappe: Secret Information?…umm…did you read the link he posted…it wasn’t nothing.

    3. To many: The “theology not included” argument is a straw man. The post was titled “A Theologically Provocative Response…” …provocative…like you know…”serving or tending to provoke”…thats pretty much what it did (since you commented on it) so it looks pretty accurate to me.

    • Sheila Janca says:

      I cannot speak for John, but some people are confident enough in their beliefs, they do not need to re-defend themselves to this original blogger, or anyone else, who doesn’t have any legitimate argument to engage.

  14. Brian says:

    I see two general approaches to discussion here on this page. One hangs on the emotions and experiences of the practitioners of same-sex ersatz unions or their friends. The other approach looks to God’s design for men and women, and his proclamations in scripture.

    The question is, which one trumps the other? Which is true? John Shore and his band of commenters argue for life experiences and a simplistic “God is love” characterization of the “divine”. The Son He Loves attempts to persuade on God’s behalf from God’s Word and ideas derived from it.

    “It’s not the default design” So right, so right. The Bible describes man as, “male and female, He created them.” It says, “Keep the marriage bed pure.” “The husband is the head of the wife.”

    Scripture is true, and it’s reasonable to conclude that all people practicing same-sex behaviours fail at God’s design for relationships.

  15. imago dei says:

    JS – You send a claque over here to rebut on your behalf? And you call them “brilliant”? Not so much. You are truly underwhelming, sir, if silence is the best defense you can mount against this “mouse that roared”.

    BB – Have another heaping dose of practical laxity why don’t you?

    TSHL – Perhaps the best thing about your broaching this issue is the adversarial responses you have received. Be blessed!

  16. imago dei says:

    TSHL – One final thought re the obvious members of the collective referred to by JS as his “brilliant little band” and it is this. With his insipid statement, one can surmise that he put them up to responding … which robs each and every response of its authenticity.
    I look forward to more from you.

  17. Pat says:

    Well said Seymore Clearly! You spoke the truth in love.

  18. Southe says:

    I’m not sure what good leaving a comment on a five year old blog post will do. I’m also not sure what a comment from an avowed atheist will do to change your mind. That said, I’m rather a fan of Mr. Shore and your post comes up on the first page of the Google results when I search for “John Shore”, so perhaps some comment is warranted.

    “Do these guys really think it wise to take an Exacto-knife to certain biblical principles/moral standards that don’t line up with society’s new-normal values? We certainly don’t do this with regard to other sins, but when it comes to the gay issue – well that’s different.”

    In fact, you *do* take an exacto-knife to the Bible. Pretty much everyone does. There’s no other way to function as a sane, moral individual in the 21st century. If you disagree, remind me again what the punishment listed in the Bible for two men having a sexual relationship is? It’s death, isn’t it? Leviticus 20:13? And don’t try the “that means SPIRITUAL death bit”, the line is:

    “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

    And it comes right after the death penalty for sleeping with your daughter-in-law and right before the death penalty (by fire, no less) for marrying a woman and her mother. All of Leviticus 20 is about the arranged punishment for various sins.

    So tell me, how many gay men have you put to death, Mr. Clearly? Given that you’re not blogging from prison, I’m assuming zero. Good job picking and choosing passages from the bible to support!

    “But Mr. Southe!” I can hear you saying. “That’s the Old Testament! Jesus fufilled those laws, exempting us from them!” Right. So 2100 years ago putting a gay man to death for a harmless action was totally acceptable and moral behavior, but now, suddenly, it’s a heinous punishment that you would never consider? Mr. Clearly, either acknowledge that you are a hypocrite who picks a particular sin to call out but ignores the states punishment, or acknowledge that the bible is *not* morally consistant and must be interpreted. I don’t envy you the choice, but it must be made.

    (An aside: Hetero-pride parades? Seriously? Mr. Clearly, every day of the year is heterosexual pride day. Heterosexuals need not fear their right to marriage and the relationship that fufills them being taken away. Heterosexuals need not fear bigots stringing them up from fence posts. Heterosexuality is the *default option*. You don’t need a special day to declare your heterosexuality any more than you need to “come out” as straight. It’s already assumed.)

    The “default design” hmm? Well, fun fact, my “default design” is to have vision so atrocious I can’t see more than a foot in front of my face. Am I violating God’s design by wearing glasses? Is my nearsightedness simply something God has given me as a test? Or is it possible that, just maybe, some people are born differently from others, and as long as that difference harms nobody we shouldn’t punish it?

    (Not to mention the numerous cases of homosexuality in animals. Can animals sin, Mr. Clearly? Can animals be “outside God’s design”?)

    Comparing homosexuality, an innate attraction, to the decision to have an affair is not just a category error, it is blatantly offensive. A commited gay couple hurts no one. An affair is by definition hurting one party in a relationship. Homosexual behavior may be a choice, but homosexuality is clearly not, as evidenced by the failure of “conversion therapy” to actually change anyone’s sexual orientation. By asking gay people to abstain from any fufilling relationship, you are asking too much. You are asking someone to forgo a life of connection, of love, of *happiness*, because you disapprove of their harmless, consentual relationship. To ask that is not only foolish, it is unbelievably cruel.

    You, Mr. Clearly, are behaving hypocritically and callously, and asking of others what you do not ask of yourself. You are condeming an entire group of people (Numbering in the millions!) based on your own, personal reading of the bible, and acting as if your beliefs are objective truth. I do not honestly expect you to change your beliefs, but I *do* ask that you stop trying to convice gay children, *children*, that they are sinful and broken and that God hates an intrinsic and key part of them. You are *literally harming children*, Mr. Clearly, and I would hope that you have the common decency to recognize that and to stop it.

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